Difference between revisions of "Talk:List of homebrew applications"

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m (Supermariofan67 moved page User talk:List of homebrew applications to Talk:List of homebrew applications over redirect: Why? This isn't a user page)
 
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{{Archive box
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|[[/Archive 1]]
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[[/Archive 2]]}}
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__TOC__
 
__TOC__
== Table Wiki code ==
 
was gonna make a chart but this one already exists. heres the code i stole.
 
{| class="wikitable" style="margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto; width:100%; text-align:center; font-size:90%;"
 
|+ <span style="font-size:130%;">Wii Homebrew Chart</span>
 
! Title
 
! Creator
 
! Software type
 
! Loaders
 
! Chainloader Install
 
! Loader Return
 
! PAL Modes
 
! Required Accessories
 
|-
 
| colspan=7 style="background:#abd5f5;"| Test  Tesy
 
|-
 
| style="background:#abd5f5;"| Tetris Wii
 
| style="background:#abd5f5;"| DesktopMan
 
| style="background:#abd5f5;"| Game
 
| style="background:#abd5f5;"| Zelda
 
| style="background:#abd5f5;"| Normal
 
| style="background:#abd5f5;"| L Button
 
| style="background:#abd5f5;"| 480i/p
 
| style="background:#abd5f5;"| NGC Controller
 
|}
 
  
also, fancy captcha is annoying. PidGin128 as [[User:65.190.210.163|65.190.210.163]] 23:08, 13 March 2008 (PDT).
+
== Changes to apps pages ==
  
:Don't you think we should add a version column?
+
Although they make the apps pages look neater, it makes it nearly impossible to monitor updated apps. Many app developers do not announce app updates on the Homebrew Updates page, and subscribing to the Special:RecentChanges RSS feed gives far too many pages. The only other way would be to subscribe to the RSS feed for every single app, and that's obviously a bit silly. Maybe the layout of that page should be discussed, or at least a version field re-added. [[User:Muzer|Muzer]] 19:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
It needs a column with the compatibility of the Wiimote.
+
: The apps pages were becoming way too unwieldly, so this was the solution that Blooper and I came up with to deal with the bloat. Versions aren't a good indicator that an app has been updated, as they don't tell you when an app was last updated, unless you're following that app closely. '''If''' anything is to be added, I would suggest a Last Updated column. --[[User:Tantric|Tantric]] 20:06, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
:I think the background color should be removed completely, along with the Display Modes column, the Download column, and the version column. --[[User:Hiker13526|Hiker13526]] 00:25, 8 May 2008 (PDT)
+
Why did you delete the download and source columns, it takes time to check every new app to just see if its source code is released.--[[User:Salehhamadeh|Sal3000]] 05:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
  
==Tar==
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== Other languages ==
Is it possible to offer a .zip download in addition to whatever tar files are provides? Not everyone has administrative privileges on the pc's they use. For instance even though I'm in college we are monitored heavily on what we use the library pc's for. it's against the rules to install programs on the computer. I would need to install a program in order to decompress any tar file. I love linux and would have a linux machine right now if my last one wasn't destroyed, but windows can not natively read tar files with the installation of some type of program. Windows, linux and macs all support zip files. Zip files aren't exactly too large, they're larger than tar, but not that much. When you're dealing with the file sizes this wiki uses a less capable compresser isn't really going to make you or break you when it comes to its file size.
 
~gametaku5@gmail.com
 
  
:Use [http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/7-zip_portable 7-Zip Portable] from a flash drive to extract tar files. You don't need to install it. -- [[User:86.41.192.208|86.41.192.208]] 10:50, 14 March 2008 (PDT)
+
Since the translations of these lists are often out of date, i suggest making this english page look as follows (or something similar), and remove the lists in other languages alltogether.
  
== GC SD and Wii SD slots hombrew apps ==
+
{| class="apptable sortable"
 
+
|-
Is it perhaps best to now section homebrew to ensure they are identified as loading from the GC or Wii SD slot, even until they are perhaps updated to load data from the Wii SD slot?
+
! width="25%" | Title
 
+
! Article language
==Versions==
+
! Description
I think it would be a good idea to keep the versions up to date in the table.
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! width="20%" | Author
:I think the versions should be removed from the table. Also, please sign your talk page edits by typing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> at the end of them. --[[User:Hiker13526|Hiker13526]] 00:25, 8 May 2008 (PDT)
+
|-
 
+
| [[Homebrew Channel]]
== Loader return ==
+
| [[Homebrew Channel|en]] | [[Homebrew Channel/es|es]] | [[Homebrew Channel/ja|ja]] | [[Homebrew Channel/it|it]] | [[Homebrew Channel/nl|nl]] | [[Homebrew Channel/fi|fi]] | [[Homebrew Channel/de|de]] | [[Homebrew Channel/fr|fr]]
 
+
| Installs the Wii Homebrew Channel onto the System Menu
I think its a good idea to say that if possible could dev's include someway of returning to the loader, otherwise you have to reboot you wii to exit
+
| Team Twiizers
:It only even takes 2 lines of code. Declare the function:
+
|}
:void (*reload)() = (void(*)())0x90000020;
 
:and call it:
 
:if(PAD_ButtonsDown(0) & PAD_BUTTON_START) reload();
 
:and voila.
 
::I strongly disagree with this design. Just do what normal cli applications do, they return from main. But that might not work at this moment. Also, that design slowly but surely causes a stack overflow by infinite recursion, not good.--[[User:Henke37|henke37]] 12:55, 17 April 2008 (PDT)
 
 
 
== Type in table? ==
 
 
 
Since every thing is sorted by type, why do we still need to keep the type of application in the table?
 
:Agreed
 
:Seconded. [[User:198.166.12.229|198.166.12.229]] 12:52, 17 April 2008 (PDT)
 
 
 
== Homebrew Developer Tips and Suggestions ==
 
 
 
Here's my proposal for Homebrew Developer Tips and Suggestions.  -- PaceMaker
 
 
 
===Video Auto-Detect Routine===
 
Please include an autodetect routine (VIDEO_GetCurrentTVMode()) to detect HDTV/EDTV and set the appropriate video mode.
 
 
 
The current video autodetect routine doesn't work with PAL60 (480p @ 60 Hz in PAL Wii) using the offical Nintendo RGB cable for Wii.
 
 
 
Here is the video detect code from the DevKitPro Wii example.
 
 
 
    switch(VIDEO_GetCurrentTvMode())
 
    {
 
        case VI_NTSC:
 
            rmode = &TVNtsc480IntDf;
 
        break;
 
        case VI_PAL:
 
            rmode = &TVPal528IntDf;
 
        break;
 
        case VI_MPAL:
 
            rmode = &TVMpal480IntDf;
 
        break;
 
        default:
 
            rmode = &TVNtsc480IntDf;
 
        break;
 
    }
 
    VIDEO_Configure(rmode);
 
 
 
===Reboot Wii===
 
It's a good idea to include a way to reboot the Wii in all Homebrew.  Here's the source code to do it.
 
<source lang="c">
 
void Reboot()
 
{
 
// Thanks to hell_hibou
 
int fd = IOS_Open("/dev/stm/immediate", 0);
 
IOS_Ioctl(fd, 0x2001, NULL, 0, NULL, 0);
 
IOS_Close(fd);
 
}
 
</source>
 
 
 
===Exit to Loader===
 
It's a good idea to add some way to return to the loader, otherwise you have to reboot you Wii to exit.
 
 
 
    It only even takes 2 lines of code. Declare the function:
 
    void (*reload)() = (void(*)())0x90000020;
 
    and call it:
 
    if(PAD_ButtonsDown(0) & PAD_BUTTON_START) reload();
 
    and voila.
 
 
 
Note, that this method can eventually cause a stack overflow by infinite recursion.  I don't know a better way to do this though.
 
 
 
===Debugging Tip===
 
When faced with a crash in your Homebrew, often you'll see a code dump with an address and some machine code.  Here's my trick to track that back to a line of C++ code.
 
 
 
For example if your homebrew game crashes it might show something like this:
 
 
 
    CODE DUMP:
 
   
 
    800084ac:  809F0020 2F840000 ...
 
    800084bc:  ...
 
    800084cc:  ...
 
 
 
The 800084ac is the memory address in hex of where the crash occured.  809F0020 is the machine code for the offending instruction.
 
 
 
*Step 1:
 
In your makefile change the CXXFLAGS line to the following:
 
  CXXFLAGS = -save-temps -Xassembler -aln=$@.lst $(CFLAGS)
 
The "-save-temps" will save the assembly language file, which can be interesting.
 
The "-Xassembler -aln=$@.lst" creates a list file which contains the assembly and the machine code.
 
Now recompile your entire project.
 
Note, this just affects C++ code.
 
 
 
*Step 2:
 
Look at the map file that was built.  The mapfile is on by default in the Wii template makefile. Typically it's in the build subdirectory and called something.map.  Look in that mapfile for the nearest memory address that doesn't go over the one found in the CODE DUMP.  Here is an example:
 
    0x80008464                ShooterView::Render(BibGraphicsDevice&)
 
This tells me that the crash was 72 bytes into the ShooterView::Render() function.  Now to find the line number in Render()
 
 
 
*Step 3:
 
Look at the list file for the relevant function.  Here's an example:
 
 
 
    473              .globl _ZN11ShooterView6RenderER17BibGraphicsDevice
 
    474              .type _ZN11ShooterView6RenderER17BibGraphicsDevice, @function
 
    475              _ZN11ShooterView6RenderER17BibGraphicsDevice:
 
    476              .LFB1465:
 
    477              .loc 1 158 0
 
    478              .LVL20:
 
    479 02d0 9421FF00 stwu 1,-256(1)
 
 
 
The function names are mangled because this is C++ code.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_mangling#Name_mangling_in_C.2B.2B
 
The address of the first instruction of Render() is at 02d0.  This is also line 158 in the file (".loc 1 158 0").  To find the error location, just look at 0x2d0 + 72 = 0x318.  See below:
 
 
 
                                .loc 1 168 0
 
    528 0314 809F0020 lwz 4,32(31)
 
    529 0318 2F840000 cmpwi 7,4,0
 
 
 
This shows machine address 0x318 has the proper machine code and the nearest .loc statement says the problem is at line 168 of the ShooterView.cpp.
 
For more info on the assember output see the manual here:  http://sourceware.org/binutils/docs-2.18/as/index.html
 
 
 
:Your snippets are appreciated but such code is best placed in a subpage of your profile or in an article itself. A talk page is generally for discussing the article and not intended to provide actual content. --[[User:Hiker13526|Hiker13526]] 00:25, 8 May 2008 (PDT)
 
 
 
==Web browser==
 
We know the DS has a few third party browsers now, but it would be nice to see a Wii one!  (Could we port over Firefox or some other open source browser?)
 
 
 
:Is Opera open source? A port of the PC one would be far superior than the Opera Channel, and Firefox, as without all its extensions firefox is nothing, whereas Opera is basically FF + All the good extensions. (sorry if I start a browser war :s). [[User:Muzer|Muzer]] 10:17, 25 April 2008 (PDT)
 
:: No, it's not, and this would be a lot of work for little benefit.[[User:Bushing|Bushing]] 14:26, 25 April 2008 (PDT)
 
:::Opera isn't open source; I disagree that this would be a lot of work for little benefit.  Java support, downloading files, add in plugins and other things you can't do on the Internet Channel which would be definately worth it.
 
 
 
==Sub Pages==
 
I was wondering if there was a reason for the homebrew apps to be sub pages as opposed to individual pages. Using sub pages on articles can complicate mediawiki wikis as they generally employ a categorical structure as opposed to a tree structure. It can also cause too many sub pages, IE sub pages of sub pages of sub pages. I propose that future homebrew app article pages be created on their own full article page and instead of using this sub page structure, use only [[:Category:Homebrew_applications]] along with [[Homebrew_apps]]. And also, if possible, to move previous homebrew apps to their own article page. --[[User:Hiker13526|Hiker13526]] 19:50, 2 May 2008 (PDT)
 
:Really bad idea to remove them, would make the wiki untidy. Besides, for the apps, it is a tree and categorical. And how would it cause subpages of subpages? [[User:Muzer|Muzer]] 00:52, 5 May 2008 (PDT)
 
::I agree with Hiker here, subpages is not a good idea. I recommend a similar solution as over on meta wiki, that is, create a new namespace for these pages. Looks pretty much the same in the urls, but is less subpages and more a real way of sorting it. (Note: Do not just add pages with a new prefix, the wiki admin must add it in the settings for things to work properly.)--[[User:Henke37|henke37]] 01:01, 5 May 2008 (PDT)
 
:Subpages do not keep the wiki more tidy, that is what categories are for. A wiki is not a tree structure and was never meant to be. It is linked categorically, like a web. It does cause sub pages of sub pages because I wanted to add subpages to WiiHL for translation ini files but that would be a sub page of a subpage that shouldn't exist. Having a sub page for something like a translation file would be a correct usage of the feature. To have a successful tree structure sub pages of sub pages are needed. Otherwise it isn't a very good tree. But I do not think that is what we should be aiming for. Instead, I believe that having a number of different categories, nav templates, and list pages is a far better method of organization. Wikipedia doesn't even allow sub pages on the main namespace because they know people would abuse it far beyond its intended usage. Subpages are great for the Project namespace or User pages but they have a very small need or want on the main namespace. I recommend we move all the current incorrect uses of sub pages to be in the root of the main namespace. Although something like this has never been decided before on this wiki I feel we should set some precedence for it. Voting, that is. As has worked on many wikis before, a majority vote seems fair unless anyone has good reason otherwise. --[[User:Hiker13526|Hiker13526]] 07:51, 5 May 2008 (PDT)
 
::I still think that a proper namespace to organize things is the best solution. It makes it easy to separate normal articles from this radically different content, a catalog of homebrew applications.--[[User:Henke37|henke37]] 14:24, 5 May 2008 (PDT)
 
:::Quoting Meta-Wiki's [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace MediaWiki help]: "Namespaces allow, among other things, a separation of '''content from policy and discussion'''. They encourage separation of the pages of a wiki into a core set intended for public viewing, and private information intended for the editing community." Homebrew pages are part of the content, therefore, should be in the main namespace. I agree with Hiker13526: remove the subpages, and use categories instead. [[User:Felix123|Felix123]] 22:07, 5 May 2008 (PDT)
 
 
 
==Control images==
 
It will be nice to have section with the image of the controls accepted in the apps.
 
Like the one on games boxes:
 
 
 
[[Image:WiiControls.png|450px|WiiBrew]]
 
 
 
It could be nice if someone could remake those above in a better quality, and maybe in a better format (svg).
 
If we don't use the images here, it could be in the Info box of each apps.
 
 
 
Anyway, it's just an idea... - [[User:Crayon|Crayon]]
 
: is that copyrighted pictures ? i'm not sure about the legality to keep that in. May rework it a bit ? [[User:212.198.147.236|212.198.147.236]] 23:19, 7 May 2008 (PDT)
 
 
 
::I think Nintendo have better quality versions somewhere on their labyrinth of a site, I remember seeing them a few times. At least, I saw the GC and DS versions, and that was before the Wii was out. [[User:Muzer|Muzer]] 23:29, 7 May 2008 (PDT)
 
 
 
:::I found them! http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/buyers_guide.jsp#accessories --[[User:Muzer|Muzer]] 23:29, 7 May 2008 (PDT)
 
 
 
:: That's why it could nice if a designer makes new one. Like that we don't have any problem. I was only showing those picture has demo. So it could be deleted when someone decide to remake new ones (if necessary). - [[User:Crayon|Crayon]]
 
 
 
:How's this? [[Image:GCNController.svg|100px]] [[Image:Wii_Zapper.svg|130px]] I didn't much like the blue color but I can certainly color it blue if needed. --[[User:Hiker13526|Hiker13526]] 00:13, 8 May 2008 (PDT)
 
 
 
:: Wow, that's amazing you read my mind. Good job! Now we only need a place where to put those images - [[User:Crayon|Crayon]]
 
  
:::Those look brilliant! Go ahead and make more, I'll put them on the respective pages (I can only do GC controller so far for obvious reasons)
+
It would be even cooler, if the lists in other languages could just update themselves, but i dont think thats possible...
  
::::Also, please keep with the names that I'm adding the nonexistant images as. [[User:Muzer|Muzer]] 10:36, 8 May 2008 (PDT)
+
--[[User:Mechaelvis|Mechaelvis]] 19:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  
:::::Could you also add images for Front SD slot, SD Gecko, USB Gecko, GC Memory Card and Mass Storage Devices? [[User:Muzer|Muzer]] 10:41, 8 May 2008 (PDT)
+
Ugh. That would still leave the description untranslated. So I don't like the idea. These lists won't be that outdated anymore because they just include title, description, author - and not download, version, updated, etc. --[[User:Tantric|Tantric]] 19:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 +
:Point taken, but it's more when a new application is released, sometimes it takes a long time before it's added to the other languages lists. --[[User:Mechaelvis|Mechaelvis]] 14:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 +
:: True, but it takes even longer for it to be translated, if at all. And if the app page isn't translated, and the list is half translated, is there any point at all? --[[User:Tantric|Tantric]] 15:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 +
::: You are correct. If a german page links to a page that hasn't been created in german, should it link to the english article or the non-existing german article? [[User:Mechaelvis|Mechaelvis]] 09:12, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  
:Made a 1 player Wiimote icon, hope it's good enough. Tried to match it up with Hiker13526's style: [[Image:Wiimote1.svg|0x100px]] I have the 1-4 player versions made already. Before I upload I just want to know if this is something Hiker would rather do himself? As in making the control images. [[User:Chathurga|Chathurga]] 04:00, 9 May 2008 (PDT)
+
== Demo category missing ==
 +
We left out the demos tab on this page. I don't see a reason why someone looking for Wii applications would not want to see those listed on this page (WiiEarth, headtracking demo, etc).--[[User:Michael|Michael]] 13:26, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 +
: They were moved. They are accessible from the main homepage, under the "Development" section. --[[User:Tantric|Tantric]] 16:50, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 +
::In my opinion, the demos belong here just as much as the "joke" apps do, or the "math" apps do, as examples. By placing the demos where the avergage user would not look, we're inadvertently diminishing the work of the demo writers. If the only purpose of the demo is to demo code or some technique related to coding, I 100% agree these should be in the dev section, but that's not solely the case here.--[[User:Michael|Michael]] 20:04, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 +
:I have added a link to the demos to the linkbar. <tt>--[[User:Blooper4912|<font style="color:#FF6C0A;">'''Blooper'''</font>]] [[User talk:Blooper4912|<font style="color:black;"><small>(Talk)</small></font>]]</tt> 22:10, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
  
:I made templates to make adding the icons easier. Like <nowiki>{{GCNController}}</nowiki> gives you {{GCNController}}. Is that okay? [[User:Phred|Phred]] 15:05, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
+
== Question ==
 +
Could you add development apps to the to linkbar; And i was wondering if you could give me a link to the template of the app table thanks? - [[User:Gamewizard71|Gamewizard71]] 04:27, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 +
: No and no. Don't touch the template please and thanks. --[[User:Tantric|Tantric]] 04:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
  
::If I said no at this point, would it make a difference? You've already added them to every page in sight. You and Muzer are going to drive me nuts. I fully regret ever making those icons. --[[User:Hiker13526|Hiker13526]] 15:10, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
+
I got a question. I downloaded WINTERMAN, a game in the applications. And I don't know how to play it. As in, start it up.... is there a folder I'm suppose to put it in? 'Cause I have it in the Apps folder currently. Thanks. --[[User:Randoman|Randoman]] 22:00, 8 June 2011 (CEST)

Latest revision as of 05:15, 5 December 2018

Changes to apps pages

Although they make the apps pages look neater, it makes it nearly impossible to monitor updated apps. Many app developers do not announce app updates on the Homebrew Updates page, and subscribing to the Special:RecentChanges RSS feed gives far too many pages. The only other way would be to subscribe to the RSS feed for every single app, and that's obviously a bit silly. Maybe the layout of that page should be discussed, or at least a version field re-added. Muzer 19:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The apps pages were becoming way too unwieldly, so this was the solution that Blooper and I came up with to deal with the bloat. Versions aren't a good indicator that an app has been updated, as they don't tell you when an app was last updated, unless you're following that app closely. If anything is to be added, I would suggest a Last Updated column. --Tantric 20:06, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Why did you delete the download and source columns, it takes time to check every new app to just see if its source code is released.--Sal3000 05:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Other languages

Since the translations of these lists are often out of date, i suggest making this english page look as follows (or something similar), and remove the lists in other languages alltogether.

Title Article language Description Author
Homebrew Channel en | es | ja | it | nl | fi | de | fr Installs the Wii Homebrew Channel onto the System Menu Team Twiizers

It would be even cooler, if the lists in other languages could just update themselves, but i dont think thats possible...

--Mechaelvis 19:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Ugh. That would still leave the description untranslated. So I don't like the idea. These lists won't be that outdated anymore because they just include title, description, author - and not download, version, updated, etc. --Tantric 19:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Point taken, but it's more when a new application is released, sometimes it takes a long time before it's added to the other languages lists. --Mechaelvis 14:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
True, but it takes even longer for it to be translated, if at all. And if the app page isn't translated, and the list is half translated, is there any point at all? --Tantric 15:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
You are correct. If a german page links to a page that hasn't been created in german, should it link to the english article or the non-existing german article? Mechaelvis 09:12, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Demo category missing

We left out the demos tab on this page. I don't see a reason why someone looking for Wii applications would not want to see those listed on this page (WiiEarth, headtracking demo, etc).--Michael 13:26, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

They were moved. They are accessible from the main homepage, under the "Development" section. --Tantric 16:50, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion, the demos belong here just as much as the "joke" apps do, or the "math" apps do, as examples. By placing the demos where the avergage user would not look, we're inadvertently diminishing the work of the demo writers. If the only purpose of the demo is to demo code or some technique related to coding, I 100% agree these should be in the dev section, but that's not solely the case here.--Michael 20:04, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I have added a link to the demos to the linkbar. --Blooper (Talk) 22:10, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Question

Could you add development apps to the to linkbar; And i was wondering if you could give me a link to the template of the app table thanks? - Gamewizard71 04:27, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

No and no. Don't touch the template please and thanks. --Tantric 04:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I got a question. I downloaded WINTERMAN, a game in the applications. And I don't know how to play it. As in, start it up.... is there a folder I'm suppose to put it in? 'Cause I have it in the Apps folder currently. Thanks. --Randoman 22:00, 8 June 2011 (CEST)