Talk:System Menu 4.2

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Do we know if Indiana Pwns still works? And if so, is it possible to reinstall HBC/BootMii with the Hackmii Installer, or will the system just wipe them again? --Hunter 1 02:51, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

  • Nevermind, thanks for putting up the answer on the main page. Now to get my copy of LIJ back from my friend... --Hunter 1 04:11, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Not even caps

Not even capsing guise. Is Comex's Smash Stack beta still functional? I assume it is, but I am most certainly not going to check until more is known about this and its effects on boot2. Momentum 04:28, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes. --Dialexio 04:30, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
YES, THANK YOU. THE CAPSING HAS RESUMED INDEFINITELY. I'LL GO ADD IT AS A WORKAROUND FOR BANNERBOMB. Momentum 04:31, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

This is a bold move for nintendo

Well i never thought theyd actually do it. But DAMN. Cant believe that they took out 5 things in one update....--ChuckBartowski 05:10, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

And it was the major things yet to boot.AaronMosh7 06:23, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

DVDx and non-piracy cIOS

Does DVDx still survive after the update as well as the non-piracy focused cIOS (249, 202)? Stevey 05:12, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to guess not, considering it overwrites the IOS versions, I think it takes out just about EVERYTHING, even Bootmii as boot2 is gone Cactusjack901 07:01, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I want to know, does 4.2 just remove these channels/CIOS files, or does it brick your wii if you have them? [User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 18:05, 1 October 2009 (EST)

Messages from Nintendo

I added Australia's Message from Nintendo; describing the update. Xiphiidae —Preceding undated comment added 06:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC).

United Kingdom message added too ~ PhoenixTank | talk | contribs | 06:32, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

German-Version added ^^ | SailorCM | 22:31, 29 September 2009 (CET)

Features?

Does the update have any features except stopping homebrew and piracy? --WiiPower 07:15, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Nintendo claims that it improves performance, but other then that, no. devonodev 09:53, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Only NA message says it would improve performance, maybe Japanses says that too. I guess the exact same piece of code can improve system performance in one geographic location, and do nothing like that in other. I guess i still got a lot to learn about programming! (sarcasm) Spec 14:56, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Boot2

1. Boot2v4 does not prevent the IOS downgrading, there are Wiis with boot2v4 that can downgrade IOS. Not that i care to downgrade (regular) IOS, but it's just not true the way it's written here, it depends on the hardware revision if downgraded IOS work or not. --WiiPower 07:15, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

So can you still downgrade IOS on 4.2 with an old wii or not? --SifJar 17:58, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

2. Can BootMii installed to boot2v4? I mean as soon as TT finds a new eploit.(i assume the exploit used for the installation is fixed) --WiiPower 07:15, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Given the proper boot1 version, it can be installed on boot2v4 that's what I have it on, the boot1 is where the exploit lays. What I wanna know is if Hackmii Installer 0.4 TEST runs, if so, then I can update worry free, actually =p Cactusjack901 08:02, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Wii Shop Channel

I noticed the page was changed to say for people to use NUS Downloader to update their Wii Shop Channel, rather than WiiSCU. I already used WiiSCU shortly after the update was needed to access the Shop, which worked, but do I have the same result as what would be achived with NUSD? MasterGH 07:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Reverted it myself a few moments ago. Having no problems with a WiiSCU updated shop channel. Can't see any reason to use NUSD. ~ PhoenixTank | talk | contribs | 07:59, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
What is your Wii region? I have a PAL and WiiSCU it's not updating my shop channel :( I have also updated IOS61 to its latest version, but it's still asking me for update. --Marcmax 14:19, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I have the same problem as you, with a NTSC-U Wii.--digoserra 16:57, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

NUS isn't working too.--digoserra 18:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)--Update: It worked now! I used NUS to download it, but I had to manually change the version to 17 because the database is outdated.--digoserra 19:04, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I made a quick modification to Wii Shop and IOS61 installer, now it installs the real latest Shop Channel :)--Marcmax 21:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Pal Wii here. Just picked the update shop channel option in WiiSCU, and it worked fine. ~ PhoenixTank | talk | contribs | 21:38, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I've got a PAL Wii (I'm Australian) like Phoenix, and had no issues at all updating the channel with WiiSCU. MasterGH 21:51, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I have European PAL Wii and I tried updating the Wii Shop Channel with WiiSCU but it did work. WiiSCU received an error when it got to data 8/18. Diego_pmc Talk 14:20, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
EDIT: I used NUS Downloader and it worked. Diego_pmc Talk 14:52, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

legal action?

is it at all possible for us to take legal action against nintendo yet? I was thinking they may have used some hbc code in order to detect it --Toagac 11:10, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Not in this way. Nobody needs hbc code to detect if a channel with the title id HAXX is installed. But they could be in trouble because they delete it in general, that's a manipulation of installed software and could be illegal in some countries. --WiiPower 11:23, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
The update message probably mentions "unauthorized modifications" for that reason. "... updating to Wii Menu version 4.2 will also check for and automatically remove such save data or program files." I don't see why else they would broadcast the fact that people are making modifications. It probably brings more people into the homebrew/mod scene than it deters. --Parannoyed 14:07, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Parannoyed. What's funny is that wiibrew has been fighting pirates (no wads, "Don't pirate. " as this page says) for so long, "helping" nintendo to deal with pirates but in the end nintndo put "unauthorized modifications" (i.e. wiibrew) in the same category. As far as legality, the only legal case wiibrew could bring would be an antitrust one. But I'm sure they consulted their lawyers before releasing this update. Spec 14:48, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Backup loaders and especially usb loaders are possible because of hardware design errors, but Nintendo cannot fix that design errors without making old games unplayable on new Wiis. If they want to prevent piracy, they have to make it impossible to run unsigned software. And emulators, which can be downloaded from Wiibrew, are piracy loaders from Nintendo's point of view, so Nintendo wants to stop homebrew emulators, too. -- Thza 15:44, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
I don't think killing homebrew is about fighting against piracy, but rather it's a fight against unauthorized software. Developers have always paid Nintendo top money for the privilege of distributing their games for nintendo consoles, and now some homebrew people developed a way of running software without "authorizing" (meaning paying a load of cash, because there's nothing else to it) to Nintendo. I got to read more about how is that possible that MS had to pay a big anti monopoly fine for integrating IE with Windows, but Nintendo was able to get away with pretty much that since always... -- Spec 15:57, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I just thought of somthing - Find an exploit and copyright the patching code(s) so nintendo has three options:

1. Leave the exploit

2. Get sued really badly (then be forced to unpatch)

3. Rework the ENTIRE system to fix the bug, which would likely create 20 more bugs, and also cost them obscene amounts of money.

Toagac 01:57, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Safe updater

Has anyone made a safe 4.2 updater yet? I can't say I'm surprised that Nintendo are getting nasty. Uninstalling the homebrew channel is a big statement. Crundy 15:22, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm curious - based what is described about this update - is there a single benefit of updating to 4.2? 4.1 brought motionplus fix, 4.0 brought sdhc support, but why upgrade to 4.2? --Spec 15:51, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Maybe to play new games that might force you to update if the version of your software is below a certain point. If you buy a new game you might accidentally delete your homebrew channel.. I think that's the only real reason why you would want to safely update if possible. Qwho 17:06, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Makes sense. Coincidentally Wii Fit plus is coming out in next couple of days. We'll see what happens... -- Spec 17:13, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
There is no real need for a safe updater, as the only purpose of this update was killing homebrew. Without that, the update is completely pointless, and is basically 4.1 running on IOS70. However, if you really want a safe updater, it would need to just install IOS70 and System Menu 4.2 for your region, and it would need to patch the System Menu before installing to prevent HAXX and DVDX deletion. This shouldn't be TOO hard, because there are already preloader hacks for all regions except Japan which do this. It would just be a case of patching these hacks into the system menu before installation I think. --SifJar 19:11, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
What about the shop channel? Alright, I can wait a bit before buying any games but will the standard shop updater work with this update? Crundy 20:02, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

How does it remove HBC?

What does the install look for? Is it looking for the ticket of HBC (HAXX) or is it some other means? Pinball wizard 21:04, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

...is it really going to be as simple as changing the installed title of the HBC to something different, like HAX2? Or do they actually verify the signatures of the channels now? And this is semi-unrelated, but is boot2 installed during the update, or checked and reinstalled by the system menu upon boot? Because if it's only overwritten in the update, then couldn't we just re-install it after the update using either of the mentioned hacks, and then load homebrew using that? It's not as elegant as the HBC, to be sure, but it would be a good temporary fix. --Thegamefreak0134 22:23, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
If it's just something as simple as changing the title, wouldn't be better if new versions of HBC generated a random title at install time, so it would be a bit more difficult to patches like this to locate the channel that way? --Kether 03:00, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
But HBC also has the capability to update itself... this means that the HBC cant detect it's own installation - or can you get "your own" title-name? --SailorCM —Preceding undated comment added 04:12, 30 September 2009 (UTC).
Having a randomly generated title ID could cause trouble, as it would mean apps like preloader dont know what channel to load for HBC (it wouldnt be a set thing anymore). The only way to work around that is to have a file somewhere on NAND which identifies HBC (eg a file holding the randomly generated title ID), but Nintendo could easily find that file and block the channel it points to. I'd say the best option may be to allow users to choose a title ID, and then things like preloader can ask the title ID of HBC so they know what to load. But this may cause more problems that I can forsee, so I dunno if it'll happen. --SifJar 18:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

So if I understand correctly...

...We can continue using Smash Stack and Indiana Pwns to load homebrew? Does this include the Hackmii installer needed to install HBC? In which case, what's the major loss here besides piracy stuff? --PotentialExperience —Preceding undated comment added 21:53, 29 September 2009 (UTC).

Problem is, the Hackmii Installer doesn't work at all, and the system menu removes the HBC each boot, like it did the Twilight hack, at least that's my understanding Cactusjack901 22:42, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Updates GC parts too.

Just looked at the wiimpersonator logs and it looks like it writes to bc and mios as well as all the others. Probably for cMIOS deletion?--ChuckBartowski 23:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

A stupid though...

It may be silly, as I don't know how the channels-on-sd work but, has anyone tried if moving hbc to the sd, updating and then trying to run it from the sd works? Nintendo has forgotten "small details" like that since the beginning. --Kether 23:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

All that function does is copy the channel to to Wii, run it, and delete it (from the Wii, not SD card) when done. It doesn't actually run from the SD card.  — SheeEttin 01:15, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Also, with no fakesigning, that doesn't work at all. Xuzz 02:10, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Changing Ninty's mind?

I know this may sound awkward, but do you think there is any chance of making Nintendo change their approach to user-make content on the console? I am aware that Nintendo are very stubborn, but as we have all seen numerous times before, from the Internet and from PC games, giving people the ability to modify/add content is a recipe for success. Is there any chance at all Nintendo would ever change their minds and start exploiting this potential? Let's remember that they did take a step in the direction on the DSi with that application that allowed you to make small games/animations. Has Team Twiizers ever tried contacting the company about an eventual partnership? Diego_pmc Talk 15:01, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey Diego pmc, I hope this link will answer your question: http://hackmii.com/2008/07/dear-nintendo/. --Crayon (talk) 15:10, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen that before, but in the email TT only tried to make Nintendo aware of a security issue. I was wondering if they would talk to Nintendo about making an official, Homebrew-like channel. The channel would of course be moderated and Nintendo should have the right to remove any application they want, if it harms them (e.g.: emulators). The big problem would be convincing Nintendo that user content actually does them good. Diego_pmc Talk 15:17, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Why would they do that? I think that the sole reason they started to get aggressive against homebrew is the warez. The emulators cut in a little on the profits, but many of us use those because we want to play games that Nintendo does not release (or with other options, like snes with nunchuk instead of classic controller). But the real pain is the official wii games. HowToPirateWiiGames is quickly becoming common knowledge, it's starting to popup on messageboards all over the Internet, and the HBC is always at the start. We are getting more attention from the wrong side then we need. I personally think the best way to get Nintendo off our backs is to stop messing around with IOSes, as changing those seems to be the main ingredient with piracy, and a much smaller ingredient for Homebrew. I don't know if it's feasible to update the HackMii installer, but don't release details on how to update IOSes. (I presume the current cIOS install hacks are patched now) --Daid 15:47, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
"I think that the sole reason they started to get aggressive against homebrew is the warez.". I completely disagree with you on that. homebrew cuts in a lot of profits because currently all legit developers need to pay a lot of money for the Wii SDK (and have your office secured, cannot work from home etc - see http://www.warioworld.com/licenseeapplications/ ) and homebrew lets you develop for Wii for free, therefore cutting into Nintendo's profits. Bottom line what Nintendo is saying, is that while homebrew is not piracy, it is still not legit software, therefore they can and will remove it from their consoles as they see fit (otherwise they'd expect a law suit). -- Spec 16:45, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Also "The emulators cut in a little on the profits" - what about Virtual Console games? You got to pay $5-$10 for each game, which you can get via homebrew emulators completely free and ton of it.... -- Spec 17:03, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
$5-$10 is not much compared to $50 to a Wii game, and 70% of the wanted games are not buyable as VC games (Crono trigger anyone?). I think it's laughable to think that any official developer (that wants to earn a living) would use homebrew instead of buying a license from Nintendo. Only thing I might think someone would do is try out the platfrom with homebrew, to see if it's possible to do what they want. And homebrew is legit, just not authorised by Nintendo. And the update screen contains a message about removing unautorised software, by pressing install you agree to removing anything not autorised by Nintendo. Also, last but not least it MY wii, not theirs, it's mine, I payed for it if I want to paint it black, I am free to do so. If I want to shit on it, I can! And if I want to run homebrew software on it, I damn well can do so. --Daid 12:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/28/wiis-virtual-console-sales-declining/ "The VC has sold 3.3 million games. 1.5 million games in the first two months of the console and 1.8 in the last three" time $5 comes to a whole lot. As far as unathorized software: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wii/en_la/privacyEULA.jsp "Your Wii Console and the Wii Network Service are not designed for use with unauthorized software, services, or devices or non-licensed accessories, and you may not use any of these with your Wii Console or the Wii Network Service. Such use may be illegal, voids any warranty, and is a breach of this agreement.". It doesn't say anything about shit, but if that's what you're into, you should definitely try it. -- Spec 14:03, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
5mil vc games is not much compared to just 4.5mil copies of just "wii sports resort" and 47mil wii's sold worldwide. And sorry, that EULA was not on the box before I bought it, so it has no value at all. Warranty void, ok (but from a legal point of view I have a year of hardware warranty), blocking me of the wii network related functions, I can understand that (that's a service Nintendo delivers, not something I bought). But running homebrew is not illegal, don't get brainwashed. --Daid 14:21, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
that EULA is not on the box - it says right there where it was: This is the same End User License Agreement (EULA) that must be accepted when a Wii console is powered on for the first time.. i guess that's what it looked like? . If the homebrew running on wii was completely legit, Nintendo would have no right to delete it like they just did. They would definitely get a lawsuit if they did that to any legit software owned by people who can afford a lawyer. If I'm not convincing you that's fine by me, I don't need to. All I'm saying is I really like and enjoy homebrew, I'm just surprised that admins of this website are so involved into policing what they deem to be pirating, because nintendo will screw them over anyway, just like they did with SM 4.2. -- Spec 14:46, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't matter if you accept it. Because you havent accepted it BEFORE you bought it. And thats what common law in most countrys says. You have to know everything about the buying contract at the point where you buy your wii. Anyhting they want you to accept afterwards is simply worth nothing... State Law is always ahead of some Eula or other Stuff. For Example, in Germany BGB §303 is regulating such stuff. Don't know what laws exactly apply for other countrys, i just got that one in my head because i wrote something about it today--Wupme 21:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
In US it reminds the situation with laptops and Windows and people who wanted to use Linux on them, pretty much the same situation. You bought it, you paid for it, you don't accept EULA? get a refund.... example: http://equiliberate.org/?q=node/3 . But to your post, so you think that in Germany Nintendo deleted homebrew with SM 4.2 illegally? -- Spec 21:57, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I just read through the German EULA, the part concerning unlicensed software reads (translated): "By using the Wii Internet Services, you grant us the right to transmit updates, patches and similar software to your Wii console, to check your Wii console in this regard as well as generally registering all such programs (on the Wii console), in order to keep your console up to date and to uninstall/deactivate unauthorized or illegal software without further notification, insofar as this is necessary or useful for improving the service or to comply with changed legal or technical circumstances." If I understand this correctly, it is up to Nintendo to prove that it is necessary or useful to remove the HBC, if anyone would actually want to go before court on this issue. I just read BGB §303, the law Wupme cited earlier, and it doesn't relate in any way to the problem at hand. Its about ships and real estate... Anyway, I'm not a law expert on German Law, although I'm studying Law in Austria. Helsionium 18:38, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
On top of that if you bought a used (or "pre-owned") Wii from someone (who didn't reset it to factory's defaults) you would not have to accept EULA as the original owner must have done that on first power up. I would be curious to find out the outcome of someone taking this matter to court. -- Spec 03:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
But don't you HAVE to accept the EULA in order to use the Internet services? Can you even update without having to accept the EULA? Helsionium 05:37, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I wonder if "pressing the 'accept' button" would even hold up in court as a legally binding contract..... But anyone under age 18 cannot enter into a legally binding contract anyway (in the US).... So that "accept" button means diddly and squat. "No, I never agreed to that. My 11 year old cousin came in and pressed the 'accept' button, not me." As long as Nintendo doesn't have secret spy cameras in the sensorbar that takes your picture when you press the "accept EULA" button, they can never prove that you ever accepted it.... Uh... why is my sensorbar flashing... ? Oh crap!! --Mr. Reaper 06:00, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
"Also, last but not least it MY wii, not theirs, it's mine, I payed for it if I want to paint it black, I am free to do so. If I want to shit on it, I can!" (Daid ) Good point. Hell, burn it or use it as a booster seat... but yeah that quote is definitely going on my user page... -TPAINROXX/BKW 23:11, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Bricks region converted

It seems when you have a region converted wii, with this update you will get a 003 Error brick. http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=182474&st=0 --Phantagom 06:32, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Does the new HackMii installer safe update boot2?

I'm talking about the new one that came out the day after 4.2 came out. (beta 5) I know they were talking about putting a safer code to update boot2 in BootMii, but is that in this new Installer or another one coming later? --(SmaMan 05:41, 3 October 2009 (UTC))

You misunderstood. Nintendo's code is the buggy crap update code, HackMii Installer's code has always been much better. HackMii Installer is safe, but it does not install official boot2, it installs BootMii as boot2. There is no "safer" way to install Nintendo's boot2 update.

Disc Trying System Update

I hope i'm not missing something somewhere, but TMNT Smash Up seems to require the update to 4.2. I updated the shop channel & Dop'd every IOS that had a higher version number, but it still tries for it. Am I missing something?

I don't want my 6-year old to try to load the game without using Gecko & accidentally undo my HBC every time.

- Bubacxo 23:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)